Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

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Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper bangiolo20 » mer. jan 22, 2014 1:36 pm

Salute a todos !
I'm a Polish and I've come here from Slovianski forum. Slovianski is a project of an auxiliary Slavic conlang with a naturalistic approach.
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Reading so much about Interlingua and trying to learn Spanish and Italian, I've thought about a naturalistic Romance constructed language that could combine these two natural languages. The project which I've named Conceptual is at the very beginning. The aim is to make a conlang that would be as close as possible to Italian or Spanish. The pronunciation is modelled on that of the Interlingua, but it's more complex in details, e.g.
s between vowels is pronounced like z in lazy, but in the end as sh in dish.
What do you think ?

1. I wonder if some alike projects that join Italian and Spainish (or any other two, I've heard about Portunhol) had already occured in the Past. I would be grateful for any information in that matter.
2. Since I try to translate some books in this language, do you know / use any tools that you find useful while translating texts to the Interlingua ?

Amicalmente
bangiolo20
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Re: Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper bartlett » mer. jan 22, 2014 7:38 pm

We collectively, or else the board's owner(s), need to decide to what extent we will allow discussion of languages other than IALA Interlingua here. (I admit that I have participated in some brief discussions of languages other than Interlingua.) When I forst learned of Interforo, I presumed that it would deal mostly or entirely with I-gua. That is something we need to decide. (And about your particular post, I suggest you look into Lingua Franca Nova, which is already well developed.)
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Re: Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper bangiolo20 » jov. jan 30, 2014 11:10 am

Lingua franca nova non me gusta molto. Es troppo esperantito. Io prefero Occidental, benque es lontano de ser perfecto.
Pote gentilmente corrigere mios errores ? Face lo in "Adjuta con interlingua". Scriba clamando me per nome del usator in tema. Moderatores poten tamben corrigere mias messages originales, explicando correcciones como un appendice a basso.
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Re: Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper bangiolo20 » jov. jul 31, 2014 9:46 am

OK. Maybe I try sth from the other side, until you decide. Let's compare two languages : my romlang and Interlingua in a translation competion. Just for practice in both of them. There's lots of thoughts of American and Ibero-American writers.
La diferencia básica entre un hombre ordinario y un guerrero es que el guerrero toma todo como un reto, mientras que un hombre ordinario toma todo como una bendición o una maldición.

How would it sound in Interlingua ? In Conceptual that would be sth like that :
La differenza fundamental entre un homo comun y un guerreiro es que el guerreiro prende tutto como una disfida, enquanto un homo comun prende tutto como una bendición ou una maldición. :roll:
Pote gentilmente corrigere mios errores ? Face lo in "Adjuta con interlingua". Scriba clamando me per nome del usator in tema. Moderatores poten tamben corrigere mias messages originales, explicando correcciones como un appendice a basso.
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Re: Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper bartlett » jov. jul 31, 2014 6:05 pm

I myself do not support any more or new Romance-oriented international auxiliary languages. We have enough already. It is difficult enough just to get the idea of auxiliary languages out in the public, so I do not think we should confuse people by adding yet more. Among languages which more or less use a sort of pan-European international vocabulary there are IALA Interlingua and Occidental (Interlingue). Having been around the international auxiliary movement for many years, the issue is not linguistic "perfection," if we could even come up with an idea of what that means.

Striving ever more for a more "perfect" language is not the solution. Certainly, those who wish to engage artificial languages as a hobby are free to do so, and I encourage them, but I no longer support creation of new languages merely to compete with similar languages we already have. I don't remember whether on these forums I have made reference to my essay "Thoughts on IAL Success" at http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/thoughts.html but it contains my reflections on the matter, namely, that linguistic characteristics are only a small part of the picture.

I am sorry if this may seem discouraging.
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Re: Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper esra » lun. aug 04, 2014 5:19 pm

bartlett scribeva: I don't remember whether on these forums I have made reference to my essay "Thoughts on IAL Success" at http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/thoughts.html but it contains my reflections on the matter, namely, that linguistic characteristics are only a small part of the picture.


"But in Central and Eastern Europe in the 1870s and 1880s, say, the situation was very different. People were bumping up against speakers of other tongues all the time, even in a single city, and were acutely aware of the matter of dissimilar languages. The situation was not merely a theoretical but an intensely practical one, and often people, when they learn another language at all, will do so due to life circumstances, and not necessarily as a result of formal academic training or hypothetical interest."

Well, inside European Union every Union citizen has right to settle everywhere inside EU. There are lot of efforts to synchronize social systems and labour laws inside EU. So, that situation of language clashes "even in a single city" could happen again. In my opinion it depends on if jobs onside need to learn language onsite with good command. In my opinion inside EU we stand there, that nationality isn't coupled to some national language anymore. I.e. to be German, to get German passport, not compulsatory needs fluent C1 level according CEFR command of German language. Even A2/B1 will fit to get "German" citizenship.
Radio Pruno projects: IA-DE translation of Dictionario basic (2,500 parolas) & digitalization of Interlingua kompakt (both under construction)
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Re: Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper bangiolo20 » mar. aug 12, 2014 11:20 am

bartlett scribeva: It is difficult enough just to get the idea of auxiliary languages out in the public, so I do not think we should confuse people by adding yet more. (...) Having been around the international auxiliary movement for many years, the issue is not linguistic "perfection," if we could even come up with an idea of what that means.

Striving ever more for a more "perfect" language is not the solution. Certainly, those who wish to engage artificial languages as a hobby are free to do so, and I encourage them, but I no longer support creation of new languages merely to compete with similar languages we already have.
Non accordo. :)
Pote gentilmente corrigere mios errores ? Face lo in "Adjuta con interlingua". Scriba clamando me per nome del usator in tema. Moderatores poten tamben corrigere mias messages originales, explicando correcciones como un appendice a basso.
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Re: Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper bartlett » mar. aug 12, 2014 7:12 pm

Certainly you have the right to disagree with me, and I truly and genuinely support your right. :) Here we must respectfully and politely agree to disagree. For many years I have been a participant in the AUXLANG mailing list regarding auxiliary languages. (I am currently listowner but here and usually there write as "just another" participant.) It is my honest opinion that constructed auxiliary languages, no matter how much I support the ideal -- and I do!!! -- have a long way to general acceptance, and therefore it is most advantageous and strategic to support those few which already have some sort of track record, namely, Interlingua and Esperanto. Again, linguistic characteristics may not even be the most important matters regarding the acceptance and spread of a constructed international auxiliary language, but again, I support your full right to disagree with me. :)
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Re: Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper bangiolo20 » mer. aug 13, 2014 10:12 am

Lo que me preoccupa in Interlingua es :
- excessiva simplificación de grammatica
- intensiva latinización in vocabulario
- incoherenza de lexica
Pote gentilmente corrigere mios errores ? Face lo in "Adjuta con interlingua". Scriba clamando me per nome del usator in tema. Moderatores poten tamben corrigere mias messages originales, explicando correcciones como un appendice a basso.
bangiolo20
 
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Re: Conceptual - a kind of naturalistic romlang

Message publicper bartlett » mer. aug 13, 2014 10:15 pm

Please excuse me, because I may not be well understanding you due to difference in language. However, I am uncertain of your points.

" excessiva simplificación de grammatica"
How has the grammar of Interlingua been excessively simplified? The principle, insofar as I understand it, is that no grammatical matter is included in Interlingua which is not included in any of the source languages.

"intensiva latinización in vocabulario"
Well, one of Alexander Gode's principles (whether I now agree with him or not) was that I-gua is based on what he called "Romania," i.e., the linguistic heritage of Roman civilization throughout much of Europe throughout many long centuries. (Correct me if I am wrong, and I will cheerfuly accept correction :) but I have read that Latin was used in governments in lands which were never effectively historically under Roman control, so that the influence of romanic civilizazation permeated far beyond the literal Roman Empire, especially due to the Catholic Church.)

"incoherenza de lexica"
??? :?: :?: How is the lexicon of Interlingua incoherent????
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