Interlingua cognates

Ask questions about Interlingua here

Interlingua cognates

Message publicper esra » ven. dec 13, 2013 5:11 pm

Salute,

that page describes prototype procedure of Interslavic which could be seen like some Interlingua cognate project.

Amicalmente,
Radio Pruno projects: IA-DE translation of Dictionario basic (2,500 parolas) & digitalization of Interlingua kompakt (both under construction)
esra
 
Messages public: 174
Membro desde: jov. oct 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: Interlingua cognates

Message publicper Oeste » sab. dec 14, 2013 11:52 pm

Very complex language. Thanks for the post.
Corrige mi messages in "Adjuta con interlingua". Scribe mi nomine de usator in le subjecto, o in un message private.

Moderatores pote corriger mi messages original, explicante le correctiones in un addendum.

Gratias
Oeste
 
Messages public: 21
Membro desde: ven. dec 06, 2013 12:02 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Interlingua cognates

Message publicper esra » dom. dec 15, 2013 1:30 am

Yes, I agree. But same time its also interesting different than Romanic and Germanic languages.
Radio Pruno projects: IA-DE translation of Dictionario basic (2,500 parolas) & digitalization of Interlingua kompakt (both under construction)
esra
 
Messages public: 174
Membro desde: jov. oct 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: Interlingua cognates

Message publicper bangiolo20 » dom. jan 19, 2014 11:33 am

Well, though I'm not a creator of Slovianski, the author is Jan van Steenberg, but I, as a Pole, enjoy the idea of that project, but as usual the devil sticks in details. And I got other opinion in many issues.
I've myself created an artlang, Bandulica, that is based on two Slavic languages from South branch, Croatian and Slovenian, because these two are some kind of a bridge between North and other South Slavic languages + have got quite easy orthography and pronunciation.
Very complex language.
I wonder what you guys find complex / difficult / hard to grasp in Slavic languages. As for Slovianski, sometimes it appears to me that the very language is not so complex, but rather its description is written in an unfriendly, tough to grasp form.
---
BTW, have you heard about any project of Celtic auxlang ? I like Celtic languages, but the problem is I haven't got a key to open that world. I don't know much about it's grammar, pronunciation, etc. Everything seems so complex. (Not that the Romance languages are piece of cake. I'm far from that.)
Pote gentilmente corrigere mios errores ? Face lo in "Adjuta con interlingua". Scriba clamando me per nome del usator in tema. Moderatores poten tamben corrigere mias messages originales, explicando correcciones como un appendice a basso.
bangiolo20
 
Messages public: 97
Membro desde: mar. oct 29, 2013 11:03 am
Location: Polonia

Re: Interlingua cognates

Message publicper esra » dom. jan 19, 2014 1:46 pm

>> Very complex language.
>
> I wonder what you guys find complex / difficult / hard to grasp in
> Slavic languages.

In my opinion Slavic languages are "most short form, highest level, efficence analytic". One word can contain such much information what will need an whole long sentence inside Western-Germanic and Romanic languages. I.e. during digitalization of Schild's Interlingua course I got the expression that Interlingua like cognate prototype result of Romanic languages only glue at maximum one prefix and one suffix to root words. Slovianski like cognate prototype result of romance languages seems to go much further and puts such more meaning into one word. I asume English "I'm going" will be Slavish one word. Contrary to English, German is doing slightly the Slavish way, too.

> As for Slovianski, sometimes it appears to me that
> the very language is not so complex, but rather its description is
> written in an unfriendly, tough to grasp form.

Yes, but what is most friendly, tough to grasp form? At least it needs to use learner's native language as much as possible. So, most friendly, tough to grasp form is that one which has the most possible interferences inter learner's language and target language.

> --- BTW, have you
> heard about any project of Celtic auxlang ? I like Celtic languages,
> but the problem is I haven't got a key to open that world. I don't
> know much about it's grammar, pronunciation, etc. Everything seems so
> complex. (Not that the Romance languages are piece of cake. I'm far
> from that.)

Like a side effect I only have seen celtic runes writing inside Folksprak wiki wordlist. But Folksprak is still in a very, very early beginning.
Radio Pruno projects: IA-DE translation of Dictionario basic (2,500 parolas) & digitalization of Interlingua kompakt (both under construction)
esra
 
Messages public: 174
Membro desde: jov. oct 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: Interlingua cognates

Message publicper bangiolo20 » dom. jan 19, 2014 2:31 pm

esra scribeva:In my opinion Slavic languages are "most short form, highest level, efficence analytic".
Hmm... :roll:
One word can contain such much information what will need an whole long sentence inside Western-Germanic and Romanic languages.
Yes, very true. Sometimes I've got an impression that nowadays Romance languages (but not in Latin) put every grammatical function in a special word. Some kind of "outsourcing". For example, Dative is expressed not by single noun form as it usually happens in Slavic languages but with preposition a 'at, to', which is very similar what Bulgarian or Macedonian do with "na" (literally : on), but they are completely non-representative for the whole Slavic world.
I asume English "I'm going" will be Slavish one word. Contrary to English, German is doing slightly the Slavish way, too.
True : In German it would be Ich gehe. In Polish idę / Russian idu / in Slovak idem*. Usually, there's no need to add ja for 'I', unless you want to emphasize that fact refers to you and not to someone else : ja idę.
*The lexeme is a cognate to Latin ire, iterare.
Yes, but what is most friendly, tough to grasp form?
What I meant is a way of presentation.
At least it needs to use learner's native language as much as possible. So, most friendly, tough to grasp form is that one which has the most possible interferences inter learner's language and target language.
Well, yeah. The point is to show it in that way, that a potential learner could recognize as familiar.
Pote gentilmente corrigere mios errores ? Face lo in "Adjuta con interlingua". Scriba clamando me per nome del usator in tema. Moderatores poten tamben corrigere mias messages originales, explicando correcciones como un appendice a basso.
bangiolo20
 
Messages public: 97
Membro desde: mar. oct 29, 2013 11:03 am
Location: Polonia

Re: Interlingua cognates

Message publicper esra » dom. jan 19, 2014 3:59 pm

> Yes, very true. Sometimes I've got an impression that nowadays
> Romance languages (but not in Latin) put every grammatical function
> in a special word. Some kind of "outsourcing".

I would name it "blumiger" = "more (annoying?) Flower Power-ish" ;-)

Bela Italia, la, la, lala, ... Listen to often interrupted Italian pronouncation melody and compare it with Slavish sound melody. Maybe Romanian and Hungarian sound melody could be different "non-common Slavish-ish"

> For example, Dative is
> expressed not by single noun form as it usually happens in Slavic
> languages but with preposition a 'at, to', which is very similar what
> Bulgarian or Macedonian do with "na" (literally : on), but they are
> completely non-representative for the whole Slavic world.

And younger Esperanto users try to put into Esperanto language.
Na prepozicio

> True : In German it would be Ich gehe. In Polish idę / Russian idu /
> in Slovak idem*. Usually, there's no need to add ja for 'I', unless
> you want to emphasize that fact refers to you and not to someone else
> : ja idę. *The lexeme is a cognate to Latin ire, iterare.

How much Latin can be found inside Slavish language? I once read there must be lot of Latin inside Slavish languages.

> Well, yeah. The point is to show it in that way, that a potential
> learner could recognize as familiar.

Or at least that an learner can put it into context which she or he already did grasps. I.e. (sample text of Schild's IA-course)

io___passava____cata__anno___mi___vacantias____a_presso______de____mi____oncle,
ich_verbrachte__jedes_Jahr__meine___Ferien_____bei_zu_Hause_von_meinem__Onkel,

I still speculate why I can recall "a_presso_____de" = "bei_zu_Hause_von" that good. I'm sure I never heard translation of "a presso" before. Okay, I first confuse it with Germanic "press-" which is wrong friend association. Maybe that did fire some synapses to create some long-term lasting learning effect.
Radio Pruno projects: IA-DE translation of Dictionario basic (2,500 parolas) & digitalization of Interlingua kompakt (both under construction)
esra
 
Messages public: 174
Membro desde: jov. oct 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: Interlingua cognates

Message publicper bartlett » dom. jan 19, 2014 8:58 pm

There have been numerous attempts to create "interlanguages" for various subgroups (e.g., Slavic, Romance, Germanic) within the modern Indo-European languages. For instance, there is Folkspraak for the Germanic languages. Many of the advocates of such "subgroup interlanguages" may be unaware of earlier efforts.

For example, in 1902, in the USA, Elias Molee published "tutonish" (he deliberately did not use majuscule letters) as a "union tongue" for speakers of the Teutonic (Germanic) languages, including English (which is structurally Germanic, despite many Latin / Romance forms in its vocabulary). I have a copy of the book, and it is very interesting. Years ago I posted a sample of tutonish on an internet mailing list, and some Scandinavian respondents wrote that they could understand it with little difficulty. (English speakers would have more difficulty, but it used more English phonology, morphology, and syntax against more Germanic / Scandinavian vocabulary.) However, it is probable that due to the obscurity of tutonish, originators of such languages as Folkspraak may not have been aware that a well worked out language preceded them.

But what of Interlingua? Is it supposed to be Yet Another Romance Language, or is it supposed to be an international language? Although I can still read some French (and have studied some Latin) and thus can somewhat puzzle out some other Romance texts, I myself do not want Yet Another Romance Language. If I want a language for just an Indo-European subgroup, then I would try to revive Molee's tutonish. I want Interlingua to be international, not just Romance.
bartlett
 
Messages public: 86
Membro desde: mer. jun 26, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Virginia, SUA

Re: Interlingua cognates

Message publicper esra » lun. jan 20, 2014 1:34 am

> However, it is probable that due to the obscurity of tutonish,
> originators of such languages as Folkspraak may not have been aware
> that a well worked out language preceded them.

Thanks for that information. There excists low quality online copy of Tutonish tutorial. I sent information to Folksprak discussion list.

That 225 pages are round about A5 paper size, isn't? I assume letters are at least 12 pt or 14 pt. Thats not much text to type. But in the middle part of the copy often text were not scanned correctly. Thats problem.

Amicalmente,
Radio Pruno projects: IA-DE translation of Dictionario basic (2,500 parolas) & digitalization of Interlingua kompakt (both under construction)
esra
 
Messages public: 174
Membro desde: jov. oct 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: Interlingua cognates

Message publicper bangiolo20 » lun. jan 20, 2014 12:48 pm

esra scribeva:And younger Esperanto users try to put into Esperanto language.
Na prepozicio
Hm... multo interesante.
How much Latin can be found inside Slavish language? I once read there must be lot of Latin inside Slavish languages.
Hm...
The example above with ire refers rather to the common Indoeuropean heritage, not to direct loans from Latin. Yet, there are some quite common loans from Latin into PreSlavic like dom for 'house' from Latin domus (Funny that in nowadays Romance languages more popular is casa). The scale of Latin loans vary in particular Slavic language depending on mutual multilateral contacts, e.g.
Latin castellum 'castle, fortress' came with Roman Church by Czech : kostel to Polish kościół meaning 'church'.
Russian komnata for 'room' comes probably from Old Polish, and that from Medieval Latin caminata - 'a place with chimney'.

===
Besides, far more common Slavic words has Gothic genealogy, because they lived for many years along with Slavic tribes.
For example : Polish pieniądz [pieñontz] from pennig (English penny), Polish chleb 'bread' from Gothic hlaib (English loaf), etc.
I still speculate why I can recall "a_presso_____de" = "bei_zu_Hause_von" that good. I'm sure I never heard translation of "a presso" before. Okay, I first confuse it with Germanic "press-" which is wrong friend association. Maybe that did fire some synapses to create some long-term lasting learning effect.
Could be. I associate Italian presso as if there is put some pression to stick with sth.
Pote gentilmente corrigere mios errores ? Face lo in "Adjuta con interlingua". Scriba clamando me per nome del usator in tema. Moderatores poten tamben corrigere mias messages originales, explicando correcciones como un appendice a basso.
bangiolo20
 
Messages public: 97
Membro desde: mar. oct 29, 2013 11:03 am
Location: Polonia

Proxime

Retro a(l) Discussion in other languages

Qui es in linea

Usatores qui lege iste foro: Nulle usatores registrate e 1 visitante

cron