"Interlingua - Phonetic English (alike)" ?

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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » dom. dec 15, 2013 1:26 am

I don't recall whether the author claimed copyright, so I suppose I could make it available. One thing is that it is strictly a graphical writing, not something using "computer keyboard" characters (such as Unicode or whatever). Again, it seemed to be ingenious, but I doubt that one could write deep philosophy in it. :D (Its apparent disappearance is so very typical of what happens on the internet.)


I'd love to see it!
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper esra » dom. dec 15, 2013 1:28 am

bartlett scribeva:As for an intergermanic, the reference mentions Elias Molee's tutonish (in practice, he did not use capital / majuscule letters) which he originally published in the USA in 1902. It is still available in reprint. (I have a copy.)
Very interesting. I ever dreamed of to be play role of some zonal conlang "Versuchskaninchen" (guinea pig).

bartlett scribeva:I have always thought well of it, as he intended it to replace, eventually, the Germanic languages, including even English, which he counted among the Germanic tongues despite its heavily Latin / Romance vocabulary today.
That seems to be neither good idea nor necessary because under the nation coat most dialects can stay alive further. Maybe Zonal conlangs could be base for new order of European super-nations under the hood of Europe Union's superintendence. So i.e. Slavic nations languages will get Interslavic dialects, Romanic nations languages will get Interlingua dialects and Germanic nations language could get i.e. Tutonish dialects.

bartlett scribeva:Perhaps it is just lack of knowledge that modern "inventors" of proposed intergermanics have not paid more attention to Molee's tutonish. Some years ago I posted an extract on an auxiliary language mailing list, and the Scandinavian members of the list replied that they could understand most of it at sight without difficulty.
Interesting. I will now try to play the role of some test person:

Tutonish

"... elias molee, e ferfasr ov teutonik isn (war) gebärn 3a einam (januari) 1845 ov eltera, wer komen fon norvegia to 1 platz 30 kilometra fon e stad ov milwaukee ... ale nakbara havn file kinda, wer kanen nur spreka sine eigena teutonike moderspraka..."

Elias Molee, ein Verfasser von (English: of) Teutonik war (German: wurde) geboren (German: am) 3ten Januar 1845 von (English: of) Eltern, welche kamen von (German: aus) Norwegen zu einem Platz 30 Kilometer von einer Stadt (German: in der Nähe von Milwaukee) von (English: of) Milwaukee ... alle Nachbarn haben viele Kinder, welche können nur sprechen seine (ihre) eigene teutonische Muttersprache.

Elias Molee, der Verfasser von Teutonik wurde am 3ten Januar 1845 als Kind von Eltern geboren, welche aus Norwegen zu einem Ort 30 Kilometer in der Nähe von Milwaukee hinzogen. Alle Nachbarn hatten viele Kinder, welche nur ihre eigene teutonische Mutterspache sprechen konnten.

Its obviously loaned to some Old German tone which doesn't meet nowadays Standard German but with some fantasy its fully comprehensible to German native speakers.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » dom. dec 15, 2013 1:49 am

Interesting.

Tutonish is not easily read by me, not visually recognizable as meaningful. Interlingua is easy to read and almost instantaneously meaningful. However, when heard the opposite is true. Listening to interlingua is a challenge. When I read the tutonish lord's prayer out loud my friend knew what it was and it was so clear to me as well. When I read the lord's prayer to him in interlingua a couple of weeks ago he had no clue. Me neither by sound.

As a nonspeaker the two languages I most like to hear are flemish and lithuanian. If only they meant something to me.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper esra » dom. dec 15, 2013 2:09 am

Oeste scribeva:Interesting.

Tutonish is not easily read by me, not visually recognizable as meaningful. Interlingua is easy to read and almost instantaneously meaningful. However, when heard the opposite is true. Listening to interlingua is a challenge. When I read the tutonish lord's prayer out loud my friend knew what it was and it was so clear to me as well. When I read the lord's prayer to him in interlingua a couple of weeks ago he had no clue. Me neither by sound.

As a nonspeaker the two languages I most like to hear are flemish and lithuanian. If only they meant something to me.


Flemish sounds like some German dialect. I once heard it spoken in Brussel. Lithuanian I didn't hear until now.

I browsed through the Teutonish tutorial. I could be wrong but loud read Teutonish sounds like some mix of Swabian and Plattdeutsch (Low German) dialect. Seen from historical view its interesting how he tried to save pages with using i.e. "cm" for "come". Or are these abbreviations some feature of Teutonish by itselves?
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper bartlett » dom. dec 15, 2013 2:19 am

Oeste scribeva:
I don't recall whether the author claimed copyright, so I suppose I could make it available. One thing is that it is strictly a graphical writing, not something using "computer keyboard" characters (such as Unicode or whatever). Again, it seemed to be ingenious, but I doubt that one could write deep philosophy in it. :D (Its apparent disappearance is so very typical of what happens on the internet.)


I'd love to see it!

http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/Signology.zip
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » dom. dec 15, 2013 2:33 am

http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/Signology.zip


Thanks Paul!
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » mar. dec 17, 2013 11:28 pm

http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/Signology.zip
bartlett


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Finally found some time to examine the Signology symbols and the commentary/explanations. Also had the opportunity to read some of Semantography (Blissymbolics) by C. K. Bliss.

Overall the blissymbols are much simpler and clearer. They are less pictographic than the signology symbols, easier to draw, contain less extraneous information, and IMHO have aesthetically pleasing character.

It's clear that though the system Bliss created and attempted to disseminate is a work of genius, it was hampered by the man himself. His strident writing and bombast were no doubt very off-putting to anyone who would have wished to adopt the system for it's merits. His desire to receive a royalty from the use of the symbols would also have been a major impediment. Imagine if IALA had proposed that when we use interlingua we have to send them money.

Given the complexity and problems in english communication I still believe that it would be better to work from interlingua to blissymbols. It wouldn't be very hard to create a bliss-interlingua dictionary corresponding to the 2500 word set. Bliss has close to 5000 words, composed of about 100 basic symbols.

You can download and read Semantography at www.blissymbolics.us He doesn't address the symbols themselves until page 100 or so. It's mostly rants and salesmanship until then.

There are other resouces scattered around.

Some of you are deep thinkers who would have some interesting things to say about it all, I'm sure.

Esra mentioned using english as the written international language and interlingua and interslavic as spoken international languages. Does anyone else have a view like that? I'm looking for a convincing argument about having any international language in a time when decentralization seems to be the theme of the world.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper bartlett » mer. dec 18, 2013 12:47 am

I wonder if we (I include myself) are straying here from the purpose of Interforo. :) As I understand it, the purpose of this board is Interlingua, not other languages. And here we are discussing other languages in English! Yes, I read the idea of some kind of tie-up between Interlingua and something like Blissymbols, but I myself see no future (or use) in that, considering that Interlingua has so little penetration as it is.

To me it seems that going off with a different writing system will do more harm than good. It just adds another layer of complication, I would say, and probably few people are going to want to use a writing system which they cannot compose with a keyboard or customary handwriting (at least, for those who already know languages written in the Latin alphabet). Interlingua (and every other constructed auxiliary language, for that matter) has such a steep hill to climb that unless we are just hobbyists, we should stick to basics and the language as is.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » mer. dec 18, 2013 1:48 am

I wonder if we (I include myself) are straying here from the purpose of Interforo. :) As I understand it, the purpose of this board is Interlingua, not other languages. And here we are discussing other languages in English!


Yes, I had considered this. This is the 'discussion in other languages' part of the board. I suppose my own purpose is in finding the right place for interlingua in the general ecology of communication. To me it seems a great language for collaborators. It is straight forward. So, though this bliss discussion could be seen as a venture into the weeds, it is for the purpose of bringing something back, possibly of use.

Interlingua (and every other constructed auxiliary language, for that matter) has such a steep hill to climb that unless we are just hobbyists, we should stick to basics and the language as is.


Ah, prescriptive pronouncements! For the good of the cause!

I'll leave it all to the experts. The academics. The community which has so far failed in the objective, and be a hobbyist.

The humor section of interforo has been great fun. Other sections, less fun but very informative.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper esra » dom. oct 12, 2014 5:19 pm

esra scribeva:Salute,

should Interlingua be promoted like some phonetic English extension? In my opinion most disadvantage of English is thats why English isn't phonetic and because of that spoken English can split into dialects very easy. Not that so obviously Interlingua, isn't?

What about i.e. "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

"Interlingua - Romanic but Phonetic English alike" (?)


"English being more strong related to Romanic than Germanic languages lets qualify Interlingua like phonetic accompaniment of English: Interlingua - Phonetic accompaniment of English bridge language."

Completely I'm still not happy with word "accompaniment". Slogan is intended to be most respectful to English and Interlingua language community.

How to "sell" it this way?
Radio Pruno projects: IA-DE translation of Dictionario basic (2,500 parolas) & digitalization of Interlingua kompakt (both under construction)
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