"Interlingua - Phonetic English (alike)" ?

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"Interlingua - Phonetic English (alike)" ?

Message publicper esra » mer. dec 04, 2013 5:53 pm

Salute,

should Interlingua be promoted like some phonetic English extension? In my opinion most disadvantage of English is thats why English isn't phonetic and because of that spoken English can split into dialects very easy. Not that so obviously Interlingua, isn't?

What about i.e. "Interlingua - Phonetic English (alike)" ?

"Interlingua - Romanic but Phonetic English (alike)" ?

I mean Shavian alphabet was not accepted. So why not offer solution Interlingua instead of Shavian? In Interlingua English seems to be implemented like some Romanic source language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavian

Amicalmente,
Le ultime vice modificate per esra sab. oct 18, 2014 10:03 am, modificate 1 vice in total.
Radio Pruno projects: IA-DE translation of Dictionario basic (2,500 parolas) & digitalization of Interlingua kompakt (both under construction)
esra
 
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » mer. dec 11, 2013 6:18 am

You would probably find Handywrite interesting. http://www.alysion.org/handy/handywrite.htm

English is much too problematic to be solved with a few spelling changes. It does arouse my curiosity as to whether anyone had made a simplified english replacing the verbs with regular verbs, etc. It would be interesting. There are various forms of pidgin where the grammar is chinese but the vocabulary is mostly english.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper bartlett » mer. dec 11, 2013 10:44 pm

One problem with "English" is that there is not a single English around the world. With only minor exceptions, *written* English is somewhat standard, if the writer avoids local idioms and slang, but English as it is *spoken* differs substantially from country to country. Most of us educated native speakers of this or that dialect can usually (not always! :o ) understand each other in speech, but a foreigner who studies one dialect often is almost lost to try to understand a speaker of another dialect of English.

A major advantage of constructed international auxiliary languages (conIALs) such as Interlingua is that there is more or less a standard pronunciation and way of expression. This is very good (if it can be maintained), and is an advantage.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » jov. dec 12, 2013 1:13 pm

Well, interlingua has several advantages that are unrelated to speaking. My english is good, my spanish is functional. Neither helped me when I would encounter french or italian. I've only been working on interlingua for ten days and I had no difficulty understanding some french in an instruction manual yesterday. How much more good will it do in a month?

I found an IAL called unish. I like it but there is no literature, or little and no courses. It is similar to old fijian pidgin.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper bartlett » jov. dec 12, 2013 8:28 pm

There are several (alleged) "simplified" forms of English, ranging from Ogden's Basic English (which I consider basically fraudulent) through Voice of America's Special English to Nerrière's Globish. They are all noble attempts to offer some form of (more or less) English to the world.

I myself, even as an educated native speaker of (General American) English, support the ideal of a constructed international auxiliary language (conIAL) as simpler to learn for adult learners and more culturally neutral and (supposedly) fair for more people (although I readily admit that Interlingua, however much I like it, is biased toward western speakers).

In the history of the world, in many areas and regions there have been many IALs, most of which have been "natural" languages. Constructed IALs are relatively new in world history, and are primarily (not entirely) western phenomena. Few conIALs have had much "sticking power." The only one with much such, to be honest, is Esperanto, even though it is not my personal preferred conIAL. The issue, as I see it, is how to get large numbers of people to accept the idea of *ANY* constructed auxiliary language, whether Interlingua (which I like), Esperanto (which I can read much of), or some other.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » jov. dec 12, 2013 9:35 pm

Well, from a pragmatic perspective there is not much chance of persuading large numbers of people to do anything at all. When it comes to language and communication it boils down to motivation. There is no motivation on the part of the majority of people to learn any system of international communication. International business people and national governments are the only groups with a strong need. Travelers, tourists and students will learn whichever language suits their purposes. The way the world is going Mandarin will be very useful everywhere soon.

Most Europeans speak enough English to get along anywhere it is spoken. For international written communication an ideographic system something like blissymbols would make more sense. Learn them in your own language and you can read anything written by anyone in blissymbols. Unfortunately one organization has the patent and copyright on it. So, it will have to be something as easily mastered but a new system.

There are a couple of systems for iconic texting, zlango and iConji come to mind. They don't work for handwriting. There is such thing as a Blissymbol printer though.

My own current infatuation with interlingua is mostly to help my writing in english. Forcing my brain into processing a 'new' language also causes it to shift its word-finding in daily life. I intend to translate some of the science entries on english wikipedia into interlingua for posting to the interlingua wikipedia in order to shake up and reprocess that information for my own enhanced understanding.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper bartlett » jov. dec 12, 2013 10:39 pm

Oeste scribeva: For international written communication an ideographic system something like blissymbols would make more sense. Learn them in your own language and you can read anything written by anyone in blissymbols. Unfortunately one organization has the patent and copyright on it. So, it will have to be something as easily mastered but a new system.

There are a couple of systems for iconic texting, zlango and iConji come to mind. They don't work for handwriting. There is such thing as a Blissymbol printer though.

I have some familiarity with Blissymbols, although given the situation (so far as I know it) with that communication system, it is unlikely to become a conIAL. Years ago I downloaded numerous files of a pictography called Signology. It seems interesting, but I don't know whether any such signographic system can be adequate for any but the most elementary communication. Pictographies will do for finding the loo in an international airport, but not for discussing deep philosophy. For such a task (and others like it) we need more "serious" languages like Interlingua (Esperanto, Ido, whatever).
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » ven. dec 13, 2013 12:42 am

"Pictographies will do for finding the loo in an international airport, but not for discussing deep philosophy. For such a task (and others like it) we need more "serious" languages like Interlingua (Esperanto, Ido, whatever)."

As the situation stands what you say is true.

It is much easier to master an ideagraphic system using your own language than to master a new language like interlingua.

In theory it would be possible to create a very thorough system of ideagraphs/pictographs collaboratively, employing interlingua or ido or another language to establish an agreed upon key. After that I'm sure that the various symbol and language junkies among us would jump at the chance to create ideagraph-native language dictionaries. This would make it possible for the many people who don't wish to master interlingua to master the symbol system from their own language. Because symbol systems contain the root meaning in the symbols themselves, it may even be easier to think in a symbol system than in an acquired language. This idea is abstracted from mathematics. Have you ever tried to do math in a foreign language? One of my friend's mother still does all of her arithmatic in irish even though she has been living in the USA for fifty years and hasn't used irish in all that time for other things.

I'm working my way through "Lege interlingua e apprende su structura". I'm sure that someone similarly talented to Harleigh Kyson Jr could create a very interesting and productive, mostly ideagraphic tutorial as well.

My thoughts on these matters are very new to me and therefore not very developed. There may be some glaring deficiencies in these views which aren't apparent to me yet, but if you see some, please let me know.

Since I can't see any company footing the bill for this venture it would have to be funded by a benefactor like the woman who funded the development of interlingua. Or it would be a solitary obsessive like Bliss.

It sure won't be me, the lifetime pattern of taking on projects for a couple of years before shifting focus entirely is unlikely to shift this far down the line.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper Oeste » ven. dec 13, 2013 12:45 am

Sorry, forgot to include the belief that symbol systems could indeed be developed for very precise and complex philosophical statements. It works for physics.
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Re: "Interlingua - Phonetic English alike" (?)

Message publicper bartlett » ven. dec 13, 2013 1:53 am

Oeste scribeva:After that I'm sure that the various symbol and language junkies among us would jump at the chance to create ideagraph-native language dictionaries. This would make it possible for the many people who don't wish to master interlingua to master the symbol system from their own language. Because symbol systems contain the root meaning in the symbols themselves, it may even be easier to think in a symbol system than in an acquired language. ...

I'm working my way through "Lege interlingua e apprende su structura". I'm sure that someone similarly talented to Harleigh Kyson Jr could create a very interesting and productive, mostly ideagraphic tutorial as well.

Having been around the conIAL field for many years, I would say that there are issues. Merely substituting words one for one from one's own language simply will not do. I have read texts in Interlingua which were little more than relexified English, and to be honest they seemed rather strange to me.

Languages have their own syntax and even their own "spirit" (for lack of a better word). Just creating single signs for single Interlingua words, say, will not do if one is doing nothing but substituting those signs for words in English (or whatever) utterences, even when the "source" and "target" languages come from the same or similar linguistic families. And a mere list of signs for words will not by itself capture the syntax and "spirit."
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